General Education Committee Minutes
Monday, March 01, 2004

Members present: Virginia Clark Johnson, Brian Dougan, Robert Harrold, Kate Haugen, Ranelle Ingalls, Marina Ioudina, Larry Peterson, Doug Rymph, Grant Striemer, Orven Swenson, Justin Wageman

Guests: Dale Sullivan, Kevin Brooks

Recorder: Justin Wageman "volunteered" as recorder for the meeting.

Approval of Minutes: Minutes from February 2, 2004 meeting approved unanimously.

English Department Proposal: Discussion with Dale Sullivan and Kevin Brooks on the proposal from the English Department to revise GE Communication requirements. Sullivan and Brooks responded to questions from the GE committee by presenting a context for what motivated the proposal to use advanced writing courses as approved GE courses. Several reasons were given including a vertical offering is professionally regarded as better, a too heavy dependence on lecturers to teach the 100-level courses, a better fit with the department's goal of a Ph.D. program, large 100-level classes, and increasing enrollment of students.

Haugen asked about students with a Postsecondary Education Option credit. Swenson asked about credit for AP. Sullivan stated that UND uses an ACT score of 27. NDSU is not proposing a total release, but will still require a higher level course. Brooks stated that the department does not teach remedial and will eliminate the course below the 100-level. Peterson asked if a remedial course should be offered through D&CE like math. Brooks responded that it is a philosophical argument, but he believes that a remedial course is not the answer. It is better to improve the teacher-student ratio or use tutorial support (e.g., the Writing Center). Brooks stated writing is not a discrete set of skills. It is more complex than that. It depends on the context, job situation. Engagement is needed, mainstream the student, it is ongoing development.

Clark Johnson expressed concern that resource issues are not for the GE Committee to decide. She asked who would teach the writing in the disciplines courses. Sullivan responded that the departments could teach them or English could teach them. He said that courses are capped at 22 students. The professional recommendation is 15 students.

Swenson asked about whether students could take the upper level courses if they had taken 110 and 120. Sullivan said, yes, as electives. Harrold asked for clarification about those teaching the 300-level courses. Sullivan said they would be Ph.D. candidates. Peterson asked about an article that was submitted by the English Department. Brooks stated that that is an Ivy League model. NDSU is starting with an ACT score of 27, but there are other models available.

Dougan expressed concern that this proposal denies students an opportunity for immediate success and engagement. Orv asked what GE's role is in this matter, as long as all students can take the courses and they meet two outcomes. No credit would be given for a release from 110. Sullivan said that it is best to teach content in context. All students would have a first-year course, then a third-year course would be available.

Peterson expressed concern about fragmentation. Technical communication courses ought to address the public audience, not just the discipline-specific audience. Harrold said the proposal creates a caste system. Sullivan agreed, but students could still take the upper-level courses as electives. Harrold said the reality is that students may not take them due to heavy credit requirements already. Sullivan said that students would not have to take a 300 level class and could always take 110. Swenson noted that currently there are different levels for physics, math, etc.

Peterson said that the proposal needs to be discussed with the colleges. Some highly structured majors may have no room for an additional course. The questions needing to be addressed: How will it work? How will it be structured in the GE curriculum?

Sullivan questioned whether there needs to be a method of exemption published. Peterson said that an upper-level GE subcommittee could approve students' release. Sullivan asked that this committee work with the Writing Center. Clark Johnson questioned whether it was the role of GE to oversee writing. She expressed concern that technical courses will be a real hardship. Some accredited programs have no flexibility. Students may not be able to take a 300-level English course.

Dougan expressed concern that students are missing out on an immediate opportunity for process, engagement. Peterson said that more work is needed. The proposal needs to go to the colleges for discussion. Also, there is the issue of transfer students and those who change midstream. Sullivan and Peterson will get together for further discussion.

Documents: Several documents were distributed as the meeting ended.
1. Memo from Carolyn Schnell regarding UNIV 189
2. SROI statistics from William Slanger and Curt Doekett for UNIV 189
3. Self-Assessment Survey from students in UNIV 189
4. Co-hort Retention Data from George Wallman (suggesting student retention is up after UNIV 189)
5. GE Categories Integrated into Majors Report List Peterson has made some progress with collecting these reports. He will send another request to those departments who have not responded.

Student Petitions
Student 1: Request for exemption of 189 denied unanimously.
Recommendation that student complete the requirement online.
Student 2: Request for waiver or substitution of 189 denied unanimously.
Recommendation that student complete the requirement as a mentor next Fall semester.

Announcements
Peterson announced that Bill Slanger has picked the students for the Academic Profile Test and a letter will go out next week.
Peterson announced that only two GE meetings remain: March 22 and May 3

Adjournment: Meeting adjourned at 4:00 p.m.

Justin J. Wageman